Fire truck wanted in Manassas
{Submitted photo}
A new fire truck would replace the city’s 16-year-old tower ladder truck, which was parked in a garage for more than 100 days last year because of mechanical problems, said Manassas fire and rescue spokesman Francis J. Teevan.
Fire officials in Manassas are asking the public to help them get a new fire truck.
The department recently filed a request to obtain $900,000 from the Department of Homeland Security for the purchase of a new ladder truck.
The truck would replace the city’s 16-year-old tower ladder truck, which was parked in a garage for more than 100 days last year because of mechanical problems, said Manassas fire and rescue spokesman Francis J. Teevan.
The ladder truck is the only one of its kind in the city, and the only truck that is consistently staffed by firefighters from Manassas, Manassas Park and Prince William County, added Teevan.
Hard budget times have meant more down time for the aging vehicle and, without the federal grant, it is unlikely that the city will be able to come up with the funds to replace the truck.
The current projected cost of a replacement truck tops $1 million, said Teevan.
But there is something residents can do to help get the grant money.
City officials are encouraging residents to write to the Grant Programs Administrator at DHS in Washington in hopes a public outcry will help their chances in getting the money.
The City of Manassas Fire and Rescue Department is a combination department, which uses both career staff and volunteers to respond to fires and medical emergencies in Manassas and can assist in Manassas Park and Prince William County.
Staff writer Uriah A. Kiser can be reached at 703-878-8065.
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Fauquier only has one tower-ladder for the entire county, but look at that county compaired to Prince William.
100 days is 100 days, consecutive or not. It is so far out of the norm, that it is unacceptable and improper maintenance is the only explanation I can think of for such an outage.
True, apparatus are driven into the ground with short trips and fast starts and stops. But ALL apparatus gets driven this way, yet not all apparatus is out of service for 100 days out of the year. Tower 501 is not special, unless the drivers there are unsually abusive of their units—in which case, they shouldn’t be driving. I feel like I’m repeating myself now and we’re going in circles…
Paid Taxpayer,
Is this an apparatus issue or a staffing issue? Manassas is claiming the problem is with their apparatus. You are claiming the problem is with staffing. I just want to make sure we’re tackling the same issue here.
There are plenty of aerials in prince william and manassas. I’ve only mentioned two of them, but there are others that are unstaffed nightly as you mentioned. I also forgot about the PWC training academy. Don’t they have two? Maybe they are stripped down, but just swap out equipment and you’re good to go. What about quint 504? What about Fauquier apparatus? What about the east end of the county? I would even like to see agreements drawn up where one department has Truck 50X so many nights/week, and shares it with another department for the remainder of the week. The economy is in the toilet. We can either recognize that the staffing is not there for all of these aerials, and share them, or waste money on unnecessary apparatus and keep buying and not maintaining more of them.
By the way, which FRA policy are you referencing? I would like to look it up, and, if it is the one I read about, it was only enacted in January of this year. So while volunteer waste may not occur in the form of new apparatus purchases, it still occurs with unnecessary station renovations, and bells and whistles that never get used.
If, however, you’re saying the problem is with staffing, well that’s a whole nother problem isn’t it? Perhaps the city should be asking for a grant to help with the staffing problem instead of unneeded apparatus.
We can argue all day over whether I was accusatory. Frankly, I don’t care if you think was making accusations and it is a moot point.
fyreman1,
I think the Chief is a strong enough guy that he can take a little criticism, and I doubt he took this job so he could be “given slack.“ He’s a big boy and can handle questions like this without apologists like yourself making excuses for his department.
I cannot remember who posted why don’t they explore the option of refub, but to put it in a nice way that is just polishing a piece of crap. Depending on the type of refurb done it will still utilize some if not most vital parts of the current unit and if they are breaking now you will spend a lot of money on a unit that looks better but is still unreliable.
Fire and rescue apparatus is not like your typical diesel truck, granted they have most of the same parts but fire and rescue apparatus get run extremely hard. I don’t care how good of a preventive maintenance program you have and if you have followed the manufacturer’s maintenance specs, you will have break downs and these units will be down for a period of time.
There are only a couple of shops that can work on fire apparatus in Northern VA (I am including one in Winchester) and personnel that work on emergency vehicles need to be certified as an Emergency Vehicle Technician and there are only a few hundred in the entire state! These companies that do the repair work do not stock everything that is needed to make repairs so it requires time to diagnose the issue, order, repair or make the parts needed and then put it all back together. Fire trucks are not build like your car, if there is an electrical issue in an older truck it can take days just finding the cause.
Emergency vehicles constantly go from sitting in a station to responding to an emergency then back to the station, they are run hard and I don’t want anyone to say they should drive them better because if it where your emergency you would want us there yesterday.
Tower 1 is an old unit for the size of the area it serves and it does run a lot of calls. Most departments replace heavy rescue and ladder trucks when they reach 15 years of age for an active department, some wait 20 years. But if there is an issue of it being out of service it is time to look at replacement and I have a wake up call for you…LADDER TRUCKS DO COST almost a million dollars, but if it helped save one life during its entire life at Manassas wouldn’t that be worth the one million dollars?
Also, who ever stated the rescue squad seems to get a new unit every other year or so…it is probably true. My department has a 5 year or 100,000 mile replacement plan for our ambulances. Ambulances have more miles put on them yearly than any other fire or rescue vehicle. Want to get to the hospital and not risk breaking down? Don’t second guess why your fire and rescue department is getting new units…in the end it might benefit you one day. They are operating in your best interest and yes I know there are some bad apples out there, but don’t compare us all to the few bad ones.
Drzeus,
I am sure that the unit wasn’t down for a consecutive 100 days. Between routine maintenance, ladder tests and breakdowns it could have totaled 100 days for the entire year, but not in a lump sum; you being a firefighter should know that.
I am done and stepping down off my soap box, thank you for listening and I hope we learned a little from my post. I am all for my fellow brothers and sister getting a SAFER and more reliable unit to use.
drzeus, I hope that maybe you will have an open mind and see your posts were accusatory. Also, I went back and read my posts and can say I actually didn’t say I didn’t think your were a fire fighter, I wrote I had doubts. There is a difference there. Paid taxpayer made great points that unfortunately I was not able to put down in writing as well as he/she has. All I am going to say is your comments were accusatory towards the chief and the man is new to the City, I believe just about a year and the volunteer fire fighters have not cut him any slack. I will say it again, they are the reason there is a full paid FD in Manassas now. CO1 was unstaffed several nights no matter what they say. And on some nights when they say they were fully staffed it was with inexperenced red hats. This comes from a person with full knowledge of the situation. To blame the Chief for this situation and for the Council to put him through the ringer like this is crazy and the citizens of Manassas should be in an uproar because they are paying over $100,000 a year for a man who most likely doesn’t know where he stands at this time. Instead we have part time chiefs trying to run a multi million dollar organization who seem to say they only want oversight from their own. In todays world this is not acceptable. I really think if you go back and read your posts with an open mind you will see what I have been saying isn’t as bad as you think, that what you have been writing is a little worse than you think and paid taxpayer made some great points and I don’t want to put words in his mouth but seems to support what I have been telling you all along. I do want to say again, I am not a member in Manassas in any way, I have never met the new chief but do have several friends in the department on both sides. I also don’t blame the volunteer firefighters, I blame the upper management of MVFC and the old regime, including Mayor Hal Parrish, for causing alot of these problems.
drzeus,
I am not going to get into a pissing match with you but your posts have been heavy with “accusatory” comments directed to the chief. I understand as a taxpayer in PWC of your concerns on wasted uneccesary spending, but being a firefighter you should understand a need for a tower or truck. It is an unfortunate situation that the Tower has been run into the ground and needs to be replaced but it is part of the job. The way I read it is that the tower was out a TOTAL of 100 days and it was not a consecutive 100 days. I know from being a firefighter that apparatus can go out of service for a month at a time even for simple reasons. I believe that Tw501 goes to singer as does most NOVA departments to have their apparatus serviced. I believe that Singer is swamped and have outgrown a small operation and is now big buiness but hasnt caught up with the work load. I have been witness to a piece of equipment that was sent there to get a PM and it came back almost 4 weeks later and still didnt have the oil changed. It was a mistake I am sure but to the non mechanically inclined firefighter it may not have been noticed.
As for the surrounding jurisditions buying new apparatus every 4 years, you may be off. There is an FRA policy in place that apparatus may not be replaced before a 10 year mark. Now with all the different volunteer departments it may seem they are buying new equipment every 4 but their schedules are not the same at each house.
I believe there is a need for a tower in the city, your 5 mile radius may be right with them being T511 and Twr 525 but are they going to be staffed when the city needs them? Also who are you getting on them, are they qualified and certified in HTR and truck operations or people that just jumped on?? You said there were “so many aerials within a 5 mile radius”, where are the aerials? Does 2 aerials justify “so many”? I am sure the citzens would want the CLOSEST and certified STAFFED crew availble to them. Further more the city and PWC follow NOVA procedures which get 2 trucks for fire calls so if you take away the city truck then you have to rely on T511 and Tw525, and if they arent staffed the next closest is 513 if it is staffed,well you see what I am getting at. You want to pull FOIA for the city, pull the staffing numbers for PWC and look at the actual percentages that the special pieces in PWC are staffed nights and weekends.
To end, I would think you would be more upset that city units respond into PWC, Twr 501 was all the way up off of hoadly rd the other day for a fire. So the taxpayers of Manassas city are footing the bill by sending its units deep within PWC adding to the extensive wear and tear on the city apparatus.
Your right, this should never be the case and proper maintainance should be done, but when there are no checks and balances or oversight this is what you get. PW DFR is going throught the same thing now only on a grander scale. PWC is playing catch up from years of mismangament. If you dont believe me go look at The Hilton 525!!
What in the world would make you think I am a Manassas volunteer, fyreman1? 1. I have blamed the volunteers for the maintenance problems that have led to this unnecessary grant-seeking process. 2. I have blamed the volunteers for the lack of a command structure that would allow the Chief to fix these types of problems. 3. I have stated numerous times that I am a career firefighter in another jurisdiction. If none of those three points are enough for you, oh well. You’re simply delusional and there is nothing I or anyone else can say to change your mind.
And yes, I said you ran away like a coward for firing off a statement alleging I am not a firefighter, but not backing it up with a specific reason why. You still haven’t given any specific reasons, and I’m beginning to wonder if you are a firefighter yourself. So far you’ve stated that you handle FOIA requests and prance around with a jock strap on the fireground. That tells us very little about your background. We can stack up certs if you like, but I suspect if you are a firefighter, you’ve probably held an administrative position for so long you’ve forgotten how to put your PPE on properly.
Are you ready to stop whining and name-calling now and get back on topic? I can do either, but I think it’s more productive to talk about the issues.
Now that you’ve finally realized you were wrong about the FOIA issue, let’s try to advance that discussion a bit. Assuming one does FOIA the maintenance records, do you honestly think Truck 501 has been maintained to manufacturer recommended intervals? If not, why should the good citizens of Manassas support the purchase of a new truck?
How many times did Manassas borrow aerials from neighboring departments during the 100+ days T501 was out of service? Why is it even necessary to have an aerial in Manassas with so many aerials within a 5 mile radius?
These are questions that flustered you because you thought they were misdirected. I’m not asking you or the Chief. Understand that these are open-ended questions that deserve answers from whoever has them. And if nobody has them, screw a new truck because it’s obviously not necessary.
Ok drzeus, I will try one last time. You started with the jabs in your 6/24/2009 10:24 comment. You called me a coward and told me to shut up. In fact my first response to you was to say your concerns and questions were valid but directed to the wrong people. That is all I said originally. The FOIA issue you brought up and all I did was point out the City of Manassas would not be able to answer that question or FOIAZ. That is a correct statement, they don’t do the maintenace of the fire equipment. I agree the Chief needs to mend bridges with the volunteers,but I am 100% sure he has been trying. He has invited them to meetings and includes them in any decision making. It is the volunteers who have tried to undermind his attempts to open a new station that even the volunteer rescure squad supports. The MVFC are the only ones who do not support the second station. It is a fact the City does not currently even come close to NFPA standards for response time to that side of the City. I think it is a perfect explanation that the City does not maintain the truck. What in the world can the Chief do about its current condition? He has no control over maintenance and wasn’t even here when it was run into the ground by the volunteers. In addition, I did explain my reasons for not believing your a fire fighter in my last post, in fact it is the very first sentence. But you are so worked up in a frenzy you are taking the time to read, comprehend and then post a response. drzeus, take some time, calm down, go back and read all the posts since my first one responding to you, breathe easy, and I believe you will see you started with the name calling. To quote “You took that jab and ran with it like a coward. So please elaborate or kindly shut your mouth…“ Your words not mine. You called me a coward and told me to shut my mouth, real intelligent! I think I have you figured out now, you are a volunteer at Manassas that feels threatened. Sorry boss, but you are wrong on this issue.
Having an intelligent discussion with someone who doesn’t believe it’s necessary to provide reasons to back up his arguments is impossible. You seem awfully sure of yourself, but can’t explain why. Therefore, you’ve officially lost this debate.
You are so fixated on this FOIA thing. Is it so important to you to make a point that furthers no logical argument, that you must keep hammering away at it to no result? What’s the definition of insanity again? I’ve already stated that a simple FOIA request to the volunteers would solve your concern instantly. Your response: “The city of Manassas has great lawyers that would respond back…blah blah blah.“ Brilliant! You completely missed the point.
As for outperforming you physically or intellectually, I suspect you are wrong, but I have nothing to prove to you. The manner in which your posts have degraded into a name-calling pissing match already speaks volumes of your intellect.
If I may get back on topic, the Chief may be doing a great job, but he needs to convince the public that he is doing enough. I am not so far convinced.
Your accusation that I targeted the Chief rather than the volunteers is one case in point. A good Chief would not use such a barrier as an excuse. To be clear, he did not, but you seem to want to speak for him so I will address that as one possibility. As Chief Wood said when he got hired, removing barriers between career and volunteer personnel is a priority. Therefore, using the excuse that “the volunteers maintain the truck” is not a good reason at all. Someone needs to be in charge, that person is the Chief, and that’s all there is to it.
If you can’t grasp these simple concepts, and would prefer to take jabs and then make a quick and cowardly exit from this thread, that’s fine too. I’ll remain willing to discuss.
First i don’t think you’re a fire fighter because that is what I believe. I don’t think it is required to have a reason why. Second, it was the written tone and condesending words why I believe you were accusing the Chief of wrong doing, again, just my belief. Third, since I am responsible for handling FOIA requests for my division, if the City has a good attorney, which they do, they would respond back in this manner “The City of Manassas has no maintenance records for Manassas Volunteer Fire Company Equipment.“ period, no other response would be required and none should be expected and this would meet all FOIA legal requirements. Anything further would only set the City up for uneeded scrutiny. It sounds as if you have a guilty conscience. Feeling bad about your failures as a fire fighter? So you decide to negatively comment on other department affairs. I may be right, I may be wrong. Sir, I use that statement with caution, quite frankly, you couldn’t carry my jock strap on the fire ground and couldn’t out smart me in a game of chutes and ladders, so crawl back in the hole you came from. This will be my last comment on this subject because I believe the Chief is doing a great job and support the second station and the attempt to gain a federal grant for the purchase of a new tower. And no, I do not work for the City of Manassas, but have several friends who do.
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